Curse

Pocketmancer · May 17, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Back in the day, there were no such things as Rune Traders. People had to stand around Lion's Arch yelling "WTS SUPERIOR VIGOR 100K" and "WTB MAJOR FIRE 15K" or something like that. This process was extremely tedious and the ones losing out were both parties, the sellers and the buyers.

The buyers lose out because it was difficult to find that single person selling the particular rune they wanted (as runes were extremely rare in the past). Finding the person didn't guarantee the rune would be sold at a stable price. After all, one person could have sold a Minor Energy Storage for 5k while another would have sold it for 10k.

The sellers lost out because it was a waste of time for them to stand around in lag-fest districts and taking a huge chunk of time out of their day just to get a transaction even started. When those transactions occurred, they weren't guaranteed to be successful. And the more rare a rune being sold back then, the more difficult it was to sell it. Superior Death, which I remember being as high as 80k, was nearly impossible to sell despite its high demand.

The third reason why both parties lose out is because of how easy it was to scam when doing these trades as transactions only. When the Rune Trader appeared, the transactions still existed for some time (as many players still held onto their Superior Vigors and Superior Deaths hoping they can make the most profit out of it). As time progressed, it became a better idea to simply sell to the vendor as it saved both time (and money) and provided the extended security of being able to actually sell or buy the item without being scammed.

Supply and demand did not exist for the Rune Trader at first. This is to be expected as it had empty supply and did not know the offsets on how to adjust to demand. The Rune Trader bought all runes for prices higher than they should have at first (I sold my Superior Vigor to it when it first came out for 99k). However, time takes its right reign over the market and the prices we see today are the prices we see the players willing to pay and sell their runes for.

As a result, we no longer see or read complaints about what runes are too expensive (although everybody will agree that Superior Vigors are crazy, they still cannot compare it to buying them for 100k back then). The community, in my opinion, benefitted greatly from the Rune Trader.

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Now my proposition is this. Do the same for the Skill Tomes. Throw in the Elite Tomes, too. I've had a difficult time selling my own Tomes and as a result, I ended up teaching my Elementalist a bunch of Dervish and Paragon skills that it didn't need (so I can have inventory space again). I won't announce what I think should be the minimum price for selling or whatnot because this is something that the community should decide for itself through supply and demand.

While the economy will get messed up quite a bit at first, this is for the greater good in the long run and making our Guild Wars experience much better. Easier access to the Skill Tomes can mean a number of things. Most of which is very important. Some of the other things may be exploited, but there's always a solution for that.

Pros

1. Reduction of Grind
While skill points do not come by difficultly, starting up a new character and having to re-earn those skill points can be quite troublesome. However, this is still not the big issue. The issue is actually going to the parts of the game where you can acquire such skills. Example? Take Glyph of Sacrifice for example. Its locations are either at Camp Rankor's skill trainer or Ember Light Camp's. That's pretty late in Prophecies to acquire (given that you play Prophecies properly and don't run through Lornar's). Starting up a new character, I shouldn't feel obligated to grind through the game so long just so I can enjoy one of the skills. This applies to other characters as well.

2. Simplicity for Adaption Purposes
Changing your secondary profession is something very few people do until they have large access to their skills in other professions. I've played my Elementalist for quite the time now and I must admit, I've stuck with the sub-class Monk nearly forever (it's the one I've chosen at good ol' Pre-Searing Ascalon). The reasoning? I have more skills for the sub-class Monk than anything else and as much as I'd like to try out Elementalist/Necromancer, I lack the access to test out various builds due to the insufficient amount of skills I possess for the Necromancer subclass. I have (had) a Necromancer main and a large number of skills unlocked for that class. I know how a Necromancer should play and would like to try that on my Elementalist as a subclass. However, players lacking in funds or skill points (1 platinum and one skill point can add up easily if you're just build testing) won't be able to have such a luxury. But with the Tome Trader, they may be able to access the skills they've unlocked on other characters and try them out for cheaper. This will also greatly enhance Guild Wars replayability.

3.a. Saving time
It's pretty much as the title of the pro suggests. Added the Rune Trader will save time for both the buyer and the seller. Not all of us have the same amount of free time to play Guild Wars. I work full time and study at graduate school part time. My Guild Wars play time is minimal compared to another person's. However, should I want to acquire a tome, I don't feel the desire to stand around having to shout at the major cities a few hours in order to get what I want. Players who can pick up their tome, use it, and go can get right back to playing Guild Wars and having a blast.

3.b. Reducing Lag in Major Cities
Everybody knows it. The more people stand around in a major city, the more lag there will be. I have to sometimes jump into the Asian districts just to get away from the server lag so I can move anywhere without the screen dropping to 5fps. The longer people stay around shouting what they want to sell or buy, the more people will end up clogging a major city. Although new districts form from high population in any area, it is still something unpleasant to encounter when you're unprepared.

3.c. Reduced with One NPC
Adding one NPC to any of the major cities will reduce the two problems listed above. In other words, the work spent on creating the new NPC will reduce the stress planted on the servers hosting the districts full of the sellers. Although lots of sellers and buyers aren't necessarily looking for tomes, those that are will still look for and trying to sell tomes. It's best to ease a little bit out at a time.

Cons

1. Early game abuse in early PvP Arenas by buying skills
The exploitable aspect of this trader is that characters will be able to purchase and build a completely overpowered skill set that could throw the early PvP Arenas out of the water. Lots of unfair matchups will be made and this may turn away players from participating in this PvP Arenas. My suggestion to combat this is to place a level requirement for purchasing skill tomes. Although I know this is contradictory to what I said earlier about new characters getting early access to the skills, I do realize and hope that there will still remain fun in PvP Arenas and not have that fun spoiled by funded characters giving themselves overpowered builds to shatter the opposing team. The level cap for this should be something A.Net to decide for themselves.

2. No More Need for Skill Points?
It's possible that some characters won't ever need to use their skill points again. However, let's keep in mind that players buying tomes will only have access to the skills they've previously unlocked before in the past. The skill points will have been used there (unless they got them free from Prophecies). However, to make things fair and still give skill points a purpose, I do recommend the Elite Tomes requiring them to buy (not requiring skill points to use them). Requiring skill points for elite skills can also prevent newly made characters from having access to a plethora of elite skills that may give them an overwhelming advantage, too.

3. The worth of the Platinum
The economy will take a hit from this at first. No doubt about it. People may end up having a large abundance of money and some people may buy a bit too much from it. No matter what, the economy will take a hit at first. This is something that cannot be avoided if a Skill Tome Trader is to be implemented. However, really, what is the value of the platinum though? Honestly speaking, not that much, but for one platinum, players can learn new skills at a skill trainer. Players are (should be) smart enough to know how to adjust towards the value of buying a skill tome. Would buying the skill tome save them -that- much time and money? Would paying 5k for an elite skill time outweigh the cost of having to venture over to so-and-so area to capture it? Etc. The economy will be funky at first, but as I've said over and over again, it will correct itself as time passes.

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And that is my proposition. What are your thoughts, comments, and what other ways do you think can improve the idea? Thank you for your time.

natural_Causes · May 17, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

/notsigned because its /not needed.

BTW, use search, this has been suggested before.

Introverted Dimensions · May 17, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural_Causes

/notsigned because its /not needed.

BTW, use search, this has been suggested before.

^

I feel it's really unncessary as guru trade forums make the tedious task a hell of alot easier

noneedforclevernames · May 17, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

/notsigned we don't need lvl 3's with WoH Monk bars, SH Ele Bars, etc.. . Keep them how it is. In fact, we shouldn't even have tomes in my opinion.

ShoGunTheOne · May 17, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

when the tomes were introduced, there said that there won't be a trader as they want to re-enforce player to player trading

so
/notsigned

Kerwyn Nasilan · May 17, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

It is easy enough to buy in citys sure selling is a pain but isnt it a pain with anything, and whoever said no lvl 3 SF my sin was Mobeius Striking around noob island at level 2 : ).

ValaOfTheFens · May 18, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

/signed

There's no reason for this not to exist. Tomes are an item that can't be modded or changed and thats what makes them perfect for a vendor. Prices aren't likely to change much at first but you won't have to go from LA to Kaineng to Kamadan for hours or even days to get the tome you want and at a price you can live with. If an item isn't a weapon or some other item that may have unique properties I'd like to be able to buy it at a vendor. A tome vendor will force sellers to sell at lower prices or be outsold by the vendor.

I Can Cure Cancer · May 18, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

If there's a skill tome trader you've just made the skill trainers completely obsolete depending on how much the tomes sell for. If they sell too low the tome market is destroyed if they sell too high everyone will either raise prices to be lower than trader but more than before or they'll just completely ignore the tome trader. /notsigned

pumpkin pie · May 18, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

There already exist SKILL TRAINERs. comparing them to runes trader is (LOL) sorry. Like I said before and sign on another thread that suggested to have a Tome trader

/sign on one condition that THESE TRAINER IS AT THE END OF A VERY DIFFICULT QUEST OR MISSION WHICH REQUIRED YOU TO KILL 10 BOSSES.

change my mind, kill all bosses would be ideal.

EinherjarMx · May 18, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneedforclevernames

/notsigned we don't need lvl 3's with WoH Monk bars, SH Ele Bars, etc.. . Keep them how it is. In fact, we shouldn't even have tomes in my opinion.

if you think that not having a trader of tomes is going to stop low lvl chars from using tomes you're wrong

most of people who buys tomes have the skills unlocked, and mostly knows what skills to use, that's why they're buying tomes

before tomes you still could see a lvl 7 on ascalon arena with droks armor and eviscerate, why should it be different now?

/signed

**Marty Silverblade** · May 18, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

It'd be nice to get rid of the loose tomes I have lying around wasting slots. A lot of people want to buy tomes in bulk so they'll be there forever. Btw, elites are blocked in low-level arenas anyway, so thats not an issue. Besides, if someone wants to use tomes to get skills early, they'd either buy them at a trader (skills need to be unlocked anyway), or they'd have an experienced char to buy them an elite tome from Kamadan anyway. I'll /sign.

Kook~NBK~ · May 18, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

/not signed. Not needed.

I'm always seeing people buying tomes in the PS window and if you're not over-pricing them (Saw a guy trying to sell a regular monk tome for 5k one day not too long ago!), you can find a buyer in Kamadan or LA rather quickly.

Lourens · May 18, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Its a nice idea

ill sign

Siadena · May 18, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

/not signed

Would just make 4 more titles completely "buyable" by wealthy enough players. Let's keep some of them where you have to grind at them a little bit. GW has received more requests FOR PVE grind in the past. Since it's not lvl related like many games, the "titles" were born - which was a good idea. So, let's not take away from that element added to the PVE interest.

Although I think it'll be funny in GW2 whatever unlocks someone gets might be as obsolete as like a customized blue weapon you get (from collectors editions - like a glacial blae) and as common too. Maybe a dedicated jungle troll will get the same unlock - or a better more popular one then a mini vizu, lol.

moriz · May 18, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

hay guyz, i wunt ah crystallah sward tradar!

/notsigned

agent akio · May 18, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Good Idea...

/signed

Don't see the reason or logic behind some of your guys' comments.. if low level chars want to use skills they dont have access to, they will buy tomes and use them anyways..

Tomes need a stable price, like runes, insignia's, ect..

Shayne Hawke · May 18, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Tomes only drop in HM. I don't remember seeing any HM exclusive outposts in GW.

/notsigned